- President Gustavo Petro says he has in his office the cassock that belonged to Camilo Torres. He questioned: “To whom do I give that cassock? Do I leave it in that cold house where perhaps a tyrant ruler will arrive and burn it, disappear it, because it symbolizes rebellion? Do I give it to the ELN, which can no longer distinguish between what the priest said about effective love and the Mexican cartel that suddenly arrives to buy drugs? Or to the people, who are the true owners of that cassock of Father Camilo Torres Restrepo?” What do you respond?
AG: It’s frustrating to answer such questions with the President’s biased assessments. I could ask if he knows or is more involved with drugs than I am. With that, I would resolve his value judgments. Camilo Torres Restrepo joined a Revolutionary Guerrilla and discussed seriously and deeply with Fabio Vásquez Castaño to participate in the Patio Cemento ambush, and Fabio had to accept him because he wanted to be a Guerrilla Chief to go fight in other regions of Colombia. Nobody could take that from his mind; Camilo was no “coward.” If the President doesn’t know what to do with Camilo’s cassock, he should refrain from asking; a leader should act with more foresight.
- Petro continues: “Why doesn’t the word effective love move the commander of his own organization in which Camilo Torres participated? Why is it not possible to talk about peace? Why can’t we solve problems together, and distrust fills us with hatred and vengeance?” What do you respond to the president, who is now the first commander of the ELN?
AG: The heart of the ELN is not moved by hatred or vengeance. In the ELN, we may have differences in what the President understands by “effective love” and what he understands by peace. I could ask, what is the President’s practice of “effective love”? I can account for mine; I am with my fighters, and they know my concern for their lives, as well as attending to the needs of the population, especially the poorest and most needy, where I move and beyond, we do this with the work of men and women of the ELN, not with public money, which would not be right. It’s a daily practice, not just for a while. In concrete terms, if what I say is not true, those who live with me and will read this interview can tell me: Commander, you are lying. I at least have that personal control. I could also ask him if he has that type of control. The peace of the ELN is not what the President or the government have in their minds, but what we reach in an agreement between the two delegations, and if the Table functions, we could continue building.
- The conversation table is currently suspended. How can it be unblocked? How can both parties return to the table? The government delegation claims to be willing to resume conversations and advance on point one about the participation of society in peace building and transformations. Under what conditions would the ELN be willing to return to the table?
AG: This issue was resolved with the Open Letter sent by our National Directorate to the Colombian Government on October 9, which specifically states: “The ELN is willing to hold a meeting with the government dialogue delegation to examine the crisis in which the process finds itself, with the presence of the Guarantee countries and permanent companions.” We are currently determining the date and location for this meeting.
- Agreement 25 refers to communications agreed upon in the Peace Dialogue Table. Do you think that the ignorance of both parties has contributed to feeding distances and distrust since May 2024 until now, the messages have been harsh? However, in your latest public column, you call not to shout at each other through microphones. Is this a call to establish a channel for communication between the two delegations?
AG: The ELN cannot remain silent when there are non-objective interpretations of the agreements and members of the Government Delegation and the President himself express them through microphones. If the agreed terms had been respected, it wouldn’t have been necessary to respond to such twisted interpretations. We have communicated through all channels, but they do not heed the reflections.
- In a recent interview on W Radio, the leader of the southern communal front, alias “HH,” stated that the ELN always accuses those who separate from collective positions of betrayal. It can be deduced from these statements that the claims you have made about HH lack support, and he is not a collaborator of military intelligence? Do you maintain your accusations against HH?
AG: The ELN never accused either the Socialist Renewal Current or the Alfredo Gómez Quiñones Front or the Guevaristas of being infiltrated or enemy agents. There were political differences with these groups, and separation of structures occurred, and the first two were more numerous than HH’s band. Against HH and other agents like him, we have evidence of their acts, actions, and plans that corroborate he is an agent directed by state intelligence.
- What do the guerrillas who integrate the southern communal front mean to you? How do you view this so-called territorial peace process?
AG: It is possible that among the group of people with HH, there are innocents or those without commitments to state intelligence; time will tell. Regarding the so-called “territorial process,” we know there are business interests involved in mining, demining, as I pointed out with the contracts managed by Álvaro Jiménez. HH also created his paramilitary group in Nariño as a sort of umbrella “just in case….”
- HH claimed that since 2022, the southern communal front has been making approaches to the national government. Did you have knowledge of what this group was doing based on your information? If you did not know, this means that you effectively do not have control over your fronts? Do you know if a similar situation was developing in parallel with other fronts? Which fronts and who carried it out?
AG: We had suspicions because HH did not want to move from there after coordinating with military intelligence for the hit where Commander Alex died in 2017. Then in 2022, he received orders from military intelligence to coordinate hits against other national leaders, and it became evident his connections with operations against the ELN and its leaders. There have been other plans and agents that have been discovered and thus their plans controlled. It was a military intelligence plan, and those acting as leaders are intelligence agents, and they were there to destabilize and destroy the ELN. There were never political differences regarding peace; that exploded when HH was discovered, got scared, and sought protection with those who direct him. Furthermore, the ELN has a lot of experience in handling political differences internally.
- The Monitoring and Verification Mechanism has two instances that are spokespeople: the Church and the UN. What has prevented us from knowing their report?
AG: This will likely be a topic to evaluate at the Table. For the ELN, its functioning has flaws, but it should be evaluated where it corresponds.
- You claim that there were breaches in the ceasefire by the government, but we still do not know when and where? Can you refer to those events?
AG: There are many specific cases; since that meeting between delegations is called, and the process continues, it will be one of the topics to address, and solutions must necessarily exist.
- Sectors of public opinion remain distant from valuing that the ELN indeed has a will for peace. We understand that from August 23, at the end of a sort of unilateral ceasefire where you would only carry out defensive actions, you moved to a partial offensive. The ELN has denounced that the military forces attacked them since August 6, as announced by the Minister of Defense. According to the ELN, since then, the organization has suffered losses; can you detail how many attacks and how many men and women you have lost?
AG: It’s very vague or gaseous to say “sectors of public opinion”; I could also say the same to indicate that it’s the government that lacks will. In a negotiation process, what is decisive is what both parties agree upon; neither the Government nor the ELN will sign agreements due to media pressure; that happens in Colombia or anywhere in the world. We must learn to respect each party’s domains in what they want; no one will put a noose around their neck because someone else says so; each party is sovereign. This is a matter to discuss at the Table; we will soon have that opportunity; let’s allow them to address it there.
- In your most recent interview, you spoke about the attack on the Puerto Jordán base in Arauca, where several military personnel died. Are such actions necessary?
AG: That military unit was supporting the Ex-FARC gang of Pescado; they had been participating in offensive and security actions. The commanders of all military units, in Colombia or elsewhere, must be held accountable because war is not a game; if I attack and cause casualties, I can’t then say: “don’t touch me.” That’s not how war works. In the coming days, the Eastern War Front will reveal how that successful action was carried out.
- Carlos Ruiz Massieu from the UN verification mission recently said that in the last two weeks, more people had died than during the entire year of the ceasefire with the National Liberation Army (ELN). What reflection do you draw from these words? Is the ELN in a position to resume a ceasefire, or as you hinted in your recent writing, should peace talks be advanced amidst confrontation and without a ceasefire?
AG: I do not speak about the number of dead; that issue should be addressed on the Table; I don’t have that exact knowledge. The only thing I can say is that military actions arise from the conduct of the Armed Forces and police in territories under ELN control. We have already established the political context that surrounds the situation; we have said that our political objective is to reach a stable and lasting peace, and for that to happen, it requires agreement, and at the moment the parties can’t reach consensus; we have to do what we must, but that will be resolved at the Table.
- Do you envision a future where the ELN can be recognized by the Colombian State without stigma? What do you believe must change in Colombian society and political leaders?
AG: The ELN is a political-military organization with a long history in the Colombian conflict. In Colombia, all sectors must understand that this has been a conflict, and we cannot go backwards. There are sectors of society and political leaders that must also analyze their role and not be driven by propaganda or false stories. A democratic society must recognize its history. If this is not resolved, we will continue being marked as an enemy, while those who have power will be the real culprits of the damage done to Colombia, those who have to be recognized. So, to respond, yes; I think we must advance with that recognition.
- One of the arguments for the de-escalation of violence during the negotiations was the request for security guarantees for members of the ELN who will join the political life of the country. Has this already been fulfilled?
AG: There is no will from the government; there is no willingness to comply with what was agreed upon, as the government has failed to recognize, much less recognize that the ELN must exist. That is the most difficult issue to resolve. If there is a lack of guarantees, we can’t work on peace.
- How can these security guarantees be provided? What is your perspective on this?
AG: Peace will only exist when guarantees are given, and those cannot be provided just through promises. The ELN has been the victim of agreements where they were not fulfilled, and there is a need for legal tools to provide these guarantees. There are important groups such as the UN or other international bodies that can facilitate these guarantees. There are very concrete actions that must be agreed upon, and it must also be evaluated if that is part of a policy to respect guarantees to any actor in the conflict.
- In light of the current political climate and the situation surrounding peace negotiations, what do you think the future holds for the ELN and its role in Colombian society?
AG: The ELN envisions a role in Colombian society that transcends the conflict. We want to be a part of the political landscape, contributing to the construction of peace and social justice. However, this requires a commitment from the state to truly engage in dialogue and to address the structural issues that have led to violence in Colombia. Our aim is to transform the ELN into a legitimate political force that advocates for the rights and needs of the marginalized populations.
- Many Colombians express skepticism regarding the ELN’s commitment to peace. How do you address these concerns?
AG: Skepticism is natural, especially in a country with a long history of conflict and broken promises. We must demonstrate our commitment through consistent actions that reflect our intentions. This includes engaging genuinely in peace talks, respecting agreements, and showing that we are willing to compromise for the greater good of society. We also need to communicate better with the public to rebuild trust.
- What message do you have for the families of those who have suffered due to the conflict, including both guerrilla fighters and members of the military?
AG: To the families affected by this conflict, I want to express our profound sorrow for the pain endured. Both sides have suffered tremendously. Our message is one of hope; we must seek reconciliation and understanding. It is crucial for all Colombians to come together to build a future where no family has to experience the loss of a loved one due to violence.
- In your opinion, what are the key elements that need to be addressed in a peace agreement to ensure lasting peace in Colombia?
AG: Lasting peace requires addressing root causes, including social inequalities, land distribution, and access to basic services. A comprehensive agreement must involve participation from various societal sectors, ensuring that all voices are heard, especially those of marginalized communities. Additionally, mechanisms for accountability and guarantees for human rights must be established to prevent future violations.
- Finally, what do you believe is the most important lesson learned from previous peace negotiations in Colombia that can be applied to the current process?
AG: One crucial lesson is the importance of building trust between parties. Trust is essential for effective dialogue and for making meaningful progress. Previous negotiations often faltered due to a lack of confidence in commitments made. Therefore, it is vital to create transparent channels of communication and to uphold agreements. Only then can we foster an environment conducive to peace.
- You mentioned that the issue of characterization is a fundamental one and has been on the table since March 2016 due to a directive from the Ministry of Defense at that time. Why do you believe the ELN, with its 60 years of existence, should not be classified as a GAO (Organized Armed Group)?
AG: The core issue is to identify the character of the armed uprising of the ELN. In this regard, there may be some alignment with the current government. However, being on the GAO list denies our political identity. That law or classification of criminal groups can remain as it is; we are not interested in changing it. We simply want the ELN removed from that list, as was agreed in December 2012.
- If a decree were issued that removed the ELN from the GAO list, would that facilitate the resumption of conversations?
AG: Currently, the resumption of conversations hinges on more than just the list; it will likely be one of the topics to discuss. We will need to examine what progress the government has made in this area.
- What is the relationship between the ELN and illegal economies?
AG: The ELN operates outside the law, and everything we touch becomes illegal. If the ELN has any money, it is considered illegal. This may seem confusing, but that’s the reality. If a legal person were to donate something to the ELN, that money would automatically become illegal. Everything we do, including taxation, is considered illegal, much like the government’s actions, but the government is allowed to operate legally while we are not.
- President Petro claims we are in a third cycle of violence driven by ambition. Is the ELN part of these dynamics of ambition? How do you characterize the present situation and the various forms of violence?
AG: The ELN remains a poor revolutionary organization, living with austerity and humility. Our guerrilla fronts and military units manage their expenses carefully. We are not driven by ambition but by a mission. Perhaps the President is mistaken; our mission, inherited from Camilo Torres Restrepo, is to commit to changing Colombia to make it truly democratic, just, and inclusive. We are committed to that mission, but not to ambition.
- The Mexico Agreement includes a shared vision of peace, addressing an end to armed conflict and the cessation of other forms of violence. You have never denied the disarmament or surrender of arms, correct? Or am I misinterpreting this?
AG: You are correct in your interpretation. We are not talking about disarmament or surrender in the traditional sense. The agreement implies that the armed conflict will end, but we still need to see how that will unfold in the context of Colombia’s reality.
- In the Mexico Agreement, there is mention of a Grand National Agreement. Do you align with what the Interior Minister has been proposing on behalf of the government? Could this be the pathway to achieving some of the transformations negotiated at the table?
AG: The ELN envisions a National Agreement that involves the nation and the majority of the population, developed through participation from various societal sectors. The government’s proposal seems more like an agreement between elites and political parties. We believe the focus should be on the nation and the people first, followed by political elites.
- In the event of a potential call for a constitutional assembly that could involve the ELN, would you be willing to participate?
AG: The ELN is committed to a political agreement that includes societal participation, aiming for significant changes at the political and state levels to envision a democratic, just, and inclusive Colombia.
- Is there progress on Point 1 of the agenda, which has already been signed? If difficulties are resolved, could advances be made in the remaining 22 months of this government? How far is the ELN willing to go?
AG: It’s too early to say if we will overcome the difficulties; it is a complex issue, and we don’t know how long it will take to clear this path. I prefer to wait and not be labeled a liar. I would like to have certainty, but it’s better left in the hands of both delegations, although the ELN does want to advance, and the government must also make an effort.
- There are reports of a possible poisoning attempt on members of the ELN peace delegation, including you. Are these claims true? Where did this occur? Did any foreign country participate in this alleged plot against the ELN?
AG: The deaths of political leaders, especially democratic, revolutionary, and nationalist ones, are well documented worldwide. Ultimately, these are acts of war, which can extend to poisoning. We must examine who resorts to such practices. The ELN has documented cases of comrades who died from poisoning, acknowledged by those responsible. This is a serious issue that will require careful discussion, particularly with the Colombian Military and Police.
source: ELN