Revista Alternativa: The government of President Gustavo Petro faces serious questions of corruption. Is the ELN leadership aware of this?
Antonio García: The institutions are intertwined between the State, the Political Regime and the Government, where not only the Executive acts. In this framework, the control bodies are part of the State, and they generally turn a blind eye. In general, all governments and institutions practice corruption to the extent that they are not monitored by the counter-powers of a society, of the peoples. That is why even the churches fall into these human and sinful practices. Only the vigilance of the people can be saving or healing.
What is your perspective on the so-called ‘government of change’?
Every perspective is a possibility of future reality, in addition to the circumstances, capacities, social and political strength that are required. But a government that is committed to changes or reforms must have a clear path, especially if it does not have a parliamentary majority, as is currently the case. It is not that the possibility of alliances with other centrist or democratic political forces is denied, but if we think of reforms of a popular nature, such alliances cannot blur the contents of the reforms. The government, since its campaign, during the mobilizations of 2021, was inclined to take the reforms to parliament, to the same scenario that today blocks them. The other route is to complement it with popular mobilization. The ELN welcomes any effort that takes into account the aspirations of transformations for Colombia, but we do not always agree with the ways of doing them, today the political regime has blocked them.
You have raised serious questions about the divisions in the handling of the peace talks. Do you insist on them?
In the Government Delegation, in addition to improvisation, there are differences of views and criteria; although it may affect the process, it is up to the Government to want it that way, since from the President on down they are convinced that the ELN is divided and cornered. The ELN will only comply with what it agrees to at the Roundtable, it is not obliged to comply with what the members of that delegation tell the media companies, nor what they invent in the media matrix. There is no doubt that the government’s agenda with the ELN continues to manifest the vision and counterinsurgency plan of the Armed Forces, its alliance with the paramilitaries is undeniable.
Does negotiating with the Petro government separately show that there is division in the ELN?
What was uncovered was a group of military intelligence infiltrators led by Gabriel Yépez Mejía, who activated plan B, since they could no longer continue with military operations within us, and the government and its Military Forces protected them and wrapped them in a “supposed regional peace process.” There has been no agenda, no agreement, but they are already legal, protected by the military, that is unprecedented. They’re not negotiating, they’re protecting their intelligence agents. You don’t need to do a lot of research to understand what’s going on. Then the truth will come out, so we are not in a hurry. Regarding the unity of the ELN, of course it is the object of attacks by the State and its Military Forces, we do not expect them to speak well of us, we do not know of those practices in history where an enemy speaks well of the other side.
Commander Garcia, do you think the FARC dissidents are ‘gangs of dealers’ as President Petro says?
The ELN, in order to say what it has to say, does not rely on what Petro says or does not say, it has its own opinions supported by its investigations and what the course of life has made evident. Two examples: Antonio Medina, the Attorney General’s Office itself acknowledges that he works with the Colombian Armed Forces; Arturo Paz also carried out military operations on the border with Venezuela in a plan coordinated with the Colombian military. There are dynamics of revolutionary guerrilla organizations that require processes, rhythms, times; as in the case of incorporations, which of them are conscriptions; territorial deployments cannot be carried out in any way, but in these ex-FARC groups they are done in too short a time; they are similar to paramilitary groups. On the other hand, there are no social political processes that interest them, they have priorities in business.
In Arauca it is clear that they are supported by the Colombian army, there are more than 26 tactical units covering their backs.
Do you believe in Otty Patiño and Vera Grabe reaching a possible peace agreement?
Politics is not made on the basis of beliefs or assumptions, they are born with the analysis of circumstances and the calculation of capabilities. If the government, with Otty and Vera, continues to insist on imposing their points of view and does not respect what has been agreed, it will not be possible. For the ELN, peace is not made on the basis of a piece of paper with promises, but with agreements that change reality. We have not yet discussed, nor listened to society in the formulation of an agenda of changes; until that happens there is still a very long stretch, unfulfilled promises do not shorten the path to peace.
We are in the middle of the Petro government, will we see signing peace, laying down arms and occupying political spaces as happened with the FARC?
Until there are agreements on transformations and certainties for them to be implemented, peace will continue to be elusive. The ELN is open to continue building that path, to make it as short as possible, but that doesn’t depend only on us.
Isn’t it enough with so much violence in Colombia?
For example, Yuval Noah Harari points out that in 2012 there were 620,000 deaths due to human violence in the world, war produced only 120,000, and crime the other 500,000. There were 800,000 suicides, and diabetes caused 1.5 million deaths. And to top it all off, he says allegorically: “Sugar is now more dangerous than gunpowder.” It would be necessary to look at the causes of deaths in Colombia and who causes them the most, whether the injustices of an economic model, or “weapons and persecution by the State”, how many are produced by paramilitary violence; and in the end we will see what is the real violence that kills us Colombians.
I insist, will you and your men lay down your arms?
So far the ELN is complying with the sacred right of the people to rise up in arms, as long as circumstances do not change we will continue. Peace is not the demobilization and disarmament of the armed insurgency, as long as the causes that forced the armed uprising are not overcome, the effects that this produces cannot disappear.
Don’t you think that if it’s not with Petro, it won’t be with anyone else?
A pact will be made with those who understand what peace is, and that it is not victory over the other side, that it is not their capitulation so that everything remains the same, in exchange for parliamentary seats or their legalization. That has been the worst mistake in the histories of all the negotiations so far.