People’s Defense Center (HSM) Headquarters Commander Murat Karayılan pointed out that the Turkish state has been claiming that it has finished off the guerrillas for the last three or four years, and that there are no more or very few of them left. Karayılan then asked why the Turkish army continues to carry out operations even now, if the guerrillas have been defeated.
Murat Karayılan underlined that the situation in North Kurdistan is not the one depicted by the Turkish state and added: “We are developing a strategy; more specialization, deepening in methods that will defeat all intelligence measures developed in terms of both technique and physicality. Not amateur, ordinary, classical methods, but being able to approach more patiently, more strategically and achieve results with more professional methods. The right place and right time are important. This is what we are primarily focusing on. In this period, it seems more appropriate for us to be content with giving some messages from time to time. Such an approach is more suitable in terms of balancing the process both politically and militarily.”
Here are excerpts of the interview by HSM Commander Murat Karayılan with Yeni Özgür Politika.
It was reported that the Turkish army made landings far from the tunnels and occupied an area to counter your tunnel and mobile team warfare style. Behind this was, so it was said, the idea that holding the Zergelê line, meant also breaking the connection between the areas. Can you elaborate on this a little?
The Turkish General Staff or the Ministry of War is struggling with the tactics to be implemented. It is possible to draw this conclusion from the practices. The Turkish army has not been able to bring down the tunnels in the Zap area despite using almost every method and technique imaginable for three years. The resistance in those tunnels still continues. The Turkish army is constantly losing due to the counterattacks by the guerrillas here. There are guerrillas there that are not on the defense but on the attack. The Turkish army that stands against this is struggling; it is constantly losing. The guerrillas, on the other hand, are showing the success of waging this war with the least possible losses in the history of war. Undoubtedly, this is a frightening situation that drives the army generals crazy.
Based on the results it has drawn from this, the current warfare organization is implementing a different tactic against tunnels in the areas it has newly occupied this year. In one place, there is an application that foresees a tactic of defeating guerrillas in the long term by besieging them, saying, ‘Let me not wear out my power in vain; they do not fall easily anyway. Then I will ensure the occupation of areas from afar, cut off the logistics and reinforcement channels of the guerrillas in the tunnels. In this way, I will achieve results with a long-term siege without suffering losses.’ This is just like the sieges developed against forces resisting inside castles in history. It is a tactic of holding guerrillas under siege for a long time, waiting for the logistics to end, and forcing the forces left without logistics there to abandon those points of resistance on their own. It is implementing this tactic in new places.
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Some units affiliated with the Kurdish Freedom Movement used to organize actions in Turkish metropolises against military and police vehicles and places. Was the stopping of these actions a result of ‘precautions and successful operations’ as claimed by the Turkish side or was it a requirement of a central decision?
Both have an effect. It is a situation that we can say that both of the phenomena you mentioned somehow balance and complement each other. We know very well that deploying our forces to the city and almost everywhere with old methods without having developed a depth and richness that will overcome and surpass the new techniques like cameras and a net of informers, developed in recent years, will bring losses. We are an experienced movement. We do not immediately deploy our forces to risky places in this environment where attacks are developing based on technique and with an advanced agent network, as well as an intelligence system reinforced with advanced technology. We have experienced these many times in the past. Situations in which we sent forces to unsuitable grounds and maintained them there have been experienced many times, even in the ’90s, and we have suffered heavy losses at certain times. In that respect, our cautious approach against attacks that have not been taken with sufficient precautions, our preservation of our power, for example, our creation of mitigation in the policy of over-reinforcing the Northern provinces, is being interpreted differently by Turkish state officials, consciously or unconsciously, and used as grounds and material for manipulation. They will see what the truth is when the time comes.
Strategic, patient and professional methods
We are developing a strategy. With this strategy, we ultimately aim to defeat this regime and we will achieve this. In that respect, we aim to pave the way for success by doing what is necessary in places or times when we need to approach cautiously. Successful results can only be achieved by further specialization and deepening in methods that will defeat all intelligence measures developed in both technical and physical terms. Without this, it is certain that approaching this period of struggle with amateur, ordinary, classical methods would bring failure. In that respect, it is important to achieve results with more patience, more strategic and more professional methods, as to ultimately win this war.
We do not need daily propaganda and mass-manipulating statements like the AKP. What we need is revolutionary success, and we are focusing on it. Now, by focusing on it and deepening into effective methods, we can achieve successful results on the basis of putting our strength into action at the right time and in the right place. The issue of the right place and the right time is important in this respect. We are mainly focusing on this. In this period, it seems more appropriate to us to be content with issuing some messages from time to time. Such an approach is more appropriate in terms of balancing the process from both political and military perspectives.
When you look at the military capacity and public support in the four parts of Kurdistan, taking into account the role of regional and global powers, what are the main obstacles to the formation of an anti-colonialist/anti-occupation army?
There may be various practical difficulties in developing freedom fighters in Kurdistan today and organizing an army on this basis, but it is not very difficult to overcome them. There are also a number of ways and methods that can overcome every practical difficulty. There is essentially the problem of developing a guerrilla army that will yield results. There were difficulties at that point. First, it is important to read the current era correctly. This is essentially the most important issue.
Technological weapons destroy the old classical theories and military formulas
It is a great advantage for us that Leader Apo [Abdullah Öcalan] analyzed and presented the changes that the developing scientific and technical revolution has created and could create in our age at the beginning of this century. Today, the scientific and technical revolution is rapidly progressing by creating huge developments. While new inventions and new technologies are developing every day, they are radically changing the lifestyles, social and cultural relations, and economic relations of societies around the world, and they are also causing very radical changes in the military field.
The technological weapons that are being developed are destroying the old classical theories and military formulas. Those who cannot see the change that science and technology have created in the reality of war cannot win wars. This should not be considered as just the change or development of weapons. Today, ordinary soldiers can no longer play a role in war. The power of a military force can no longer be measured by the number of heads alone. Today, the situation of achieving results is developing with more professional, expert, higher-quality fighters who are more faithful and determined to fight. Without understanding this reality, the right course of action, the right training of soldiers, the right positioning and the right armament cannot be developed. Therefore, the war cannot be won.
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The greatest enemy is our habits
Nevertheless, in practice, we may encounter conservative, unchangeable stances. Conservatism is high in societies such as the Middle East and especially Kurdistan. There is a closeness to change. Leader Apo struggled with this a lot; he offered a lot of analysis, wrote books, and provided training. Not being open to change, and therefore not overcoming the old-classical personality and not being renewed, is a serious problem. By combating this, we can develop an Apoist army that is suitable for the conditions of the period and our line.
Our greatest enemy is our own habits. Sticking to our own habits, constantly repeating the same thing, is also the main reason for our serious losses. The battlefield demands constant renewal and constant change. Once you have gone from one place, you should not go from the same place twice. You need to approach with a different tactic and method. When you stick to your habits and repeat the same thing, that is the repetition of the old and leaves the door open to losses.